Showing posts with label Rx from Abbott. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Rx from Abbott. Show all posts
Tuesday, December 16, 2008
Rx memo from Bob Abbott
BJ Retirees;
I have decided to put forward some information I have received from Dave and Gina White. Instead of going into a complete explanation and details I will only give an abbreviated view of this new possible approach.
Unlike our other explorations into only the Rx coverages for those over 65 this delves into ALL medical, hospitalization and Rx coverages for retirees of the BJ.
This involves retirees of Raytheon (International Association of Machinists Local 933...AFL-CIO) and the Raytheon Missile Systems Corp. of Arizona. A U.S. District Court has ruled that Raytheon must restore health care benefits to its employees. In this particular case it was employees who took early retirement/separation from Raytheon. If there was a problem with "regular" retirees I'm not sure at this time. Quite possibly it would or could include them if they were "injured" by the company not fulfilling there obligations. The amount of compensation to pay for the expense of the plaintiffs paying for their own medical coverage was between $6 and $12 million.
I'm not sure if the company has appealed the decision. There are many parallels I see with that situation and the situation of many BJ retirees. Many of the points of the plaintiffs in this case and the points brought up by the attorney I was talking to earlier are either the same or at least similar.
More important...and I believe this to be VERY important... Dave and Gina had a retired judge read over the U.S. District Court of Arizona's decision and the contract (the BJ's) in effect at the time of Dave and Gina's retirement/separation and in his opinion that they had a good case!
Without getting into a horribly long list of details I believe that we first must find out if there are enough people that have been injured by the BJ's sidestepping their obligations to start getting a class action suit underway. So that's what this is about. Either contact me (rabbott@mindspring.com) or Dave and Gina White in Florida. djwhite05@msn.com
I still believe that the small claims court approach is interesting to say the least...but this could be big...
bob abbott
Thursday, December 04, 2008
Rx memo from Bob Abbott
It appears the computer is back to normal and I'm in business again. Amazing how we get to depend on the tech stuff available nowadays.
I also decided to wait until after Thanksgiving to present this. Nobody wants to even think about how we've been treated by the BJ's failure to live up to their retirement/separation agreements. Could tend to put a damper on the holiday.
I also want to revisit the Rx situation before I present some areas of medical/hospitalization. And realize our previous exploration into the situation was mainly into those over 65 that were "forced" to sign up for the Aetna Medicare part D. A group plan partially funded by the BJ and partially funded by Medicare.
To go past those parameters somewhat; let me first say that if you had Rx coverage while you were working at the BJ up to the time you retired/separated you (according to several legal opinions I have heard...(both first hand and indirectly)...you are entitled to those benefits even though they were/are not in the union contract you were working under at the time you left the BJ. And I'm not aware of ANY contract with the BJ that states the Rx coverage. Over the past couple of years I have become aware of many situations where the Rx benefits have been cut off...even after the BJ had paid them for various periods of time after the employees' separation.
Think about this. Especially with the present ownership of the BJ. Do you think for a moment that the BJ would pay out a dime of Rx coverage if they didn't have to? Of course not. That, I believe, backs up our counsel's belief that, indeed, there is an obligation on the part of the BJ to give Rx coverage even though it's not in writing in any contract.
Recall my report of Bob Brown's success with his small claims court petition against the BJ in regard to their failure to continue to pay for him and his wife's medical/hospital/Rx coverage. He collected thousands and the BJ tried to "give" him more thousands if he signed off on future claims. He didn't. And the BJ's appeal as to the legality of small claims court to award Mr. Brown claims is still working through the system. I plan to contact Mr. Brown in Jan. as to the status of the action, if he doesn't get in touch with me first.
Here's what we need to do in the meantime. Try to get in touch with as many legal people as possible to see if they can give us a new viewpoint. And we need to talk to as many other retirees as possible. Our group is very small and we need more input and more feet on the ground. And if we can get into the hospitalization/medical aspect with a class action we'll need many more retirees involved.
If you get to talk to a labor lawyer...I suggest you take a copy of the union contract in effect at the time of your retirement/separation. Make sure the lawyer knows that the medical/Rx coverage in effect at that time was the big reason for your retiring/separating. If possible, have some statements that weren't...but should have been...paid by the BJ's insurance. I think most of us have a retirement/separation letter stating what we could expect upon our leaving active employment with the BJ...present that of course.
The small claims court approach is very interesting. I don't think the present owners of the BJ have attorneys on a retainer throughout the country. And we retirees are scattered all over the place. When it costs less to live up to their obligations than pay attorney fees in various states they will look at things differently. Until that happens they will do nothing. Unless they are ordered by a "regular" court to straighten up. And, even then, they will probably just keep appealing until we either die of old age or go broke filing papers for the appeals process. Think about small claims!!
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions and definitely get in touch after you talk to any counsel...with both good news or bad news.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Those that are approaching 65 years of age. The BJ will be getting in touch with you to sign an agreement to go with Aetna Medicare Rx group plan. BE CAREFUL!! I suggest you contact an attorney, the BJ human resources people, before you sign anything. Ask the human resources people if you REALLY have to sign that. The letter will probably state that either you sign it or lose all Rx benefits. Maybe not!! Let me know what those meetings boil down to.
In a week or so I will share with you some information about the possibility of a class action that might be valid against the BJ in some areas.
hang tough
bob abbott
I also decided to wait until after Thanksgiving to present this. Nobody wants to even think about how we've been treated by the BJ's failure to live up to their retirement/separation agreements. Could tend to put a damper on the holiday.
I also want to revisit the Rx situation before I present some areas of medical/hospitalization. And realize our previous exploration into the situation was mainly into those over 65 that were "forced" to sign up for the Aetna Medicare part D. A group plan partially funded by the BJ and partially funded by Medicare.
To go past those parameters somewhat; let me first say that if you had Rx coverage while you were working at the BJ up to the time you retired/separated you (according to several legal opinions I have heard...(both first hand and indirectly)...you are entitled to those benefits even though they were/are not in the union contract you were working under at the time you left the BJ. And I'm not aware of ANY contract with the BJ that states the Rx coverage. Over the past couple of years I have become aware of many situations where the Rx benefits have been cut off...even after the BJ had paid them for various periods of time after the employees' separation.
Think about this. Especially with the present ownership of the BJ. Do you think for a moment that the BJ would pay out a dime of Rx coverage if they didn't have to? Of course not. That, I believe, backs up our counsel's belief that, indeed, there is an obligation on the part of the BJ to give Rx coverage even though it's not in writing in any contract.
Recall my report of Bob Brown's success with his small claims court petition against the BJ in regard to their failure to continue to pay for him and his wife's medical/hospital/Rx coverage. He collected thousands and the BJ tried to "give" him more thousands if he signed off on future claims. He didn't. And the BJ's appeal as to the legality of small claims court to award Mr. Brown claims is still working through the system. I plan to contact Mr. Brown in Jan. as to the status of the action, if he doesn't get in touch with me first.
Here's what we need to do in the meantime. Try to get in touch with as many legal people as possible to see if they can give us a new viewpoint. And we need to talk to as many other retirees as possible. Our group is very small and we need more input and more feet on the ground. And if we can get into the hospitalization/medical aspect with a class action we'll need many more retirees involved.
If you get to talk to a labor lawyer...I suggest you take a copy of the union contract in effect at the time of your retirement/separation. Make sure the lawyer knows that the medical/Rx coverage in effect at that time was the big reason for your retiring/separating. If possible, have some statements that weren't...but should have been...paid by the BJ's insurance. I think most of us have a retirement/separation letter stating what we could expect upon our leaving active employment with the BJ...present that of course.
The small claims court approach is very interesting. I don't think the present owners of the BJ have attorneys on a retainer throughout the country. And we retirees are scattered all over the place. When it costs less to live up to their obligations than pay attorney fees in various states they will look at things differently. Until that happens they will do nothing. Unless they are ordered by a "regular" court to straighten up. And, even then, they will probably just keep appealing until we either die of old age or go broke filing papers for the appeals process. Think about small claims!!
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions and definitely get in touch after you talk to any counsel...with both good news or bad news.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
Those that are approaching 65 years of age. The BJ will be getting in touch with you to sign an agreement to go with Aetna Medicare Rx group plan. BE CAREFUL!! I suggest you contact an attorney, the BJ human resources people, before you sign anything. Ask the human resources people if you REALLY have to sign that. The letter will probably state that either you sign it or lose all Rx benefits. Maybe not!! Let me know what those meetings boil down to.
In a week or so I will share with you some information about the possibility of a class action that might be valid against the BJ in some areas.
hang tough
bob abbott
Saturday, November 22, 2008
Rx information from Abbott
Group:
OK, the computer is up and running. I'm going to attempt to add some e-mail addresses to our basically "slush fund" group. But most of our contacts will probably be through the BJ alums blog. We will be needing to contact many more of the retirees if there's a chance of making a class action suit in regard to the way we're being treated by the BJ.
One common thread through our slush fund attorney and attorneys some of the group has talked to is that if you were cut off totally from either the Rx or medical coverages you have a case! Keep that in mind and keep all records of any payments you might have paid out that you believe should have been covered. You would be well served if you can have a copy of the contract in effect at the time of your separation/retirement from the BJ. That is main thing (at this point) the courts look at when there is any legal action. I'm even looking at some possibilities (in some limited cases) that would move the basis from the union contracts to making the separation/retirement letter as being interpreted as yet another superseding contract. That would really help the Rx coverages at least.
Even the small claims approach is still a viable possibility. I haven't heard from Bob Brown in regard as to how his claims are doing at this point. I would assume that the BJ appealing some of them is still in the process of being brought to court. If Bob wins...it would, of course, open the flood gates in that approach.
There are other interesting and significant developments in our cause. While it still won't be easy it's at least a shot.
More later...
bob abbott
OK, the computer is up and running. I'm going to attempt to add some e-mail addresses to our basically "slush fund" group. But most of our contacts will probably be through the BJ alums blog. We will be needing to contact many more of the retirees if there's a chance of making a class action suit in regard to the way we're being treated by the BJ.
One common thread through our slush fund attorney and attorneys some of the group has talked to is that if you were cut off totally from either the Rx or medical coverages you have a case! Keep that in mind and keep all records of any payments you might have paid out that you believe should have been covered. You would be well served if you can have a copy of the contract in effect at the time of your separation/retirement from the BJ. That is main thing (at this point) the courts look at when there is any legal action. I'm even looking at some possibilities (in some limited cases) that would move the basis from the union contracts to making the separation/retirement letter as being interpreted as yet another superseding contract. That would really help the Rx coverages at least.
Even the small claims approach is still a viable possibility. I haven't heard from Bob Brown in regard as to how his claims are doing at this point. I would assume that the BJ appealing some of them is still in the process of being brought to court. If Bob wins...it would, of course, open the flood gates in that approach.
There are other interesting and significant developments in our cause. While it still won't be easy it's at least a shot.
More later...
bob abbott
Monday, October 20, 2008
Rx from Abbott: Bob Brown case
Group:
Here's the first of the latest developments with the BJ.
This involves a stereotyper (moved to paperhandling when that department was eliminated) named Bob Brown. I did get his permission to use his name when I talked to him last week.
What he has done is taken the BJ to Small Claims Court in Tenn. about their cutting off his medical and Rx coverage.
And he won! As I understand it, he has received several checks for some monies concerning that judgment. He had cashed one but not the others because the BJ had stipulated that by accepting those checks he was relinquishing future claims related to the action.
While I'm not sure of the exact amounts (I didn't feel comfortable asking that detail) it was definitely in the thousands. A lot of the claims resulted from the BJ's lack of coverage (medical, hospital and Rx) concerning his wife's (and partially his) medical problems. He lost his wife about a year ago.
At this point, since he didn't sign away his right for future claims or some ongoing claims, the BJ is now fighting him on those points. Their position is that the Tenn. small claims court doesn't have jurisdiction over the matter. While I'm definitely not a lawyer (but I'm starting to feel like a Philadelphia lawyer!) it's my belief that a small claims action can be brought against anybody for any reason...we'll see.
A point I would like to bring up here is the obvious. Since the BJ is owned by Canada's Mr. Black and I'm pretty sure the BJ is his only U.S. paper...you can imagine the cost of their answering legal actions anywhere but Akron, OH. I'm reasonably certain they don't have legal counsel ready to go all over the country. So they probably have to hire local counsel to represent them. Get the picture? The only way we can get the BJ to live up to their obligations is to make it more expensive not to. I would imagine this is the reason they tried to "buy off" Bob Brown. It's cheaper.
I believe this might have some real potential...especially with those retirees in other states (of which there are many).
And that why I'm urging everybody to keep all medical, Rx and any other bills that the BJ insurance should have paid but didn't. It would be necessary to have proof of the BJ's failure to meet their obligations.
Bob Brown says that the BJ cut off all his and his wife's coverages. The counsel I've been working with has also said that if the BJ does that...we would have a strong case. So far...and realize the limitations of our previous legal "investigation" into the BJ's "forcing" those over 65 to sign up with Aetna Rx/Medicare plan. They haven't cut me off yet. But this is a whole new ball game!!
I will repeat something Attorney Piatt told me. The courts generally accept the contract in effect at the time of retirement/separation. And whatever benefits you had been getting at that point, wether it's in writing in the contract or not, it is valid. So, if your contract said you would get medical/hospital coverage, you have a case if you don't get that coverage. If you were getting a prescription card or benefits...you have a case if they cut you off.
Can you see the potential? Not in my personal case, at this point, but for many of the retirees that I have talked to that have, indeed, been cut off.
While I don't have Mr. Brown's permission to give out his address or phone number, if anybody needs to talk to him please get in touch with me and I will try to handle it on a one on one basis.
He has said he will keep me up to speed with the developments of the ongoing small claims actions and the BJ's stance. I will then pass the info along as it develops.
It ain't over!!
bob abbott
Wednesday, October 15, 2008
Rx info from Bob Abbott
Group:
There are some very interesting developments in the BJ retirement situation.
At this point...since I'm still reading some legal cases...I would prefer to (at this time) only bring up what has personally happened in my situation.
As you might recall, I ran into problems with my part A & B Medicare medical coverage due to the fact that the BJ had forced all of us over age 65 to sign up with the Aetna Rx program. This was brought out in the fact that I couldn't sign up for any "Advantage" programs covering the Medicare part A & B. Medicare doesn't "split" their payments when sub contracting out the medical/Rx coverages. It turned out to be a nightmare of coverages, cancellations, reinstatements to get it straightened out.
To make a long story short, after contacting attorney Piatt with the information that the BJ's actions greatly limited my options of other medical coverages, it was determined that the BJ still hadn't denied me the prescription coverage. And the attorney was the one that wanted me to contact him when all this was determined...as to the limitations forced upon me. I don't get it I guess...
However, he did restate the fact that if the BJ ever cut off (in this case) the Rx coverage that then there would be a strong case. I am assuming that this also would apply to anybody that had their medical or Rx totally cut off (or greatly limited). And that's the next direction we're going...
While our "slush fund" has been shut down at this point we may need to get something started again...in some new directions.
Meanwhile, I ask that all of you keep ALL medical and ALL Rx bills that you may incur. This could be of great advantage in the future and give you proof of injury by the BJ's actions.
Please, keep talking to as many people with legal knowledge (it is paying off in with some new relevant information) as you can. Several of the group have been "shaking the bushes" and it's interesting what's falling out.
I will try to explain the new info within the next week or two and we'll see if we can make some progress.
thanks for your patience...
bob abbott
Tuesday, September 23, 2008
Rx info from Bob Abbott
VIEWERS PLEASE NOTE: Every post from Bob Abbott about the prescription situation that has appeared on this blog now carries a label at the bottom "Rx from Abbott." If you click on that label, it will bring up all of the posts.
Group:
Everything takes so long...sorry for the delays...
In my latest contact with attorney Piatt it turns out that there doesn't appear to be anything legal I can do at this point. But he does say that if the BJ refuses to pay what they are paying now there will definitely be a case.
Still not what we signed up for but...
More interesting and hopeful...the BJ HAS paid off a former BJ employee in regard to the prescription card. That case also is continuing on another line...but a check has been cut! And it was done with a small-claims court approach!!
I will have to get his permission to tell you his name and the situation that is ongoing.
It did have to do with the BJ not paying any of his prescription bills. I'm still not up to speed on the details but it sounds like the best break we've had so far. Ruth West knows more about it than I do so you might want to get in touch with her to get a better picture of the situation.
Meantime...I would like to suggest that all of you...and anybody else that's a BJ retiree...talk to your friends and relatives to try to find a lawyer that might help us out. You'll need some details up front to give any legal counsel a heads up on what possibly might be involved. We need to find counsel that has a different approach than the counsel I've been working with. This will take some time but it's worth while if we can pressure the BJ into living up to their agreement for retirees. And remember...even if the prescription card wasn't in writing...if you were getting the benefits of a prescription card at retirement...it is just as good as in writing.
Let's not just lay down and take it...let's keep trying. I really believe we have a chance...
If I get permission to give out the retiree's name I will let all of you know. As I will as I find out the details of what took place.
A light on the horizon...
later
bob abbott
Tuesday, July 08, 2008
Rx benefits report from Bob Abbott
Hey gang...
What's that old saying...it ain't over until it's over....?
A situation has arisen that possibly could give us a foothold in this battle against the BJ's actions. It's the thing I had to wait for 6 months to see if it would develop...it appeared it hadn't but lo and
behold...it has reared it's ugly head and now is a fact.
What it boils down to is the fact that with the BJ "forcing" us to sign up for the Aetna/Medicare part D Rx program it has greatly limited...if not totally eliminated...any of us being able to get into a Medicare/private provider program for a Medicare sponsored medical/hospital part A and B coverage.
The only options available to us is much more expensive alternatives such as a true "supplement" program which has nothing to do with Medicare.
Even the human resources department of the BJ has told me this within the last 10 days. They have said that NO "advantage" programs are compatible with the Aetna/Medicare group part D we were forced into.
In talking with Medicare they also have verified that they will not split their payment to two different providers in any Medicare involved package.
The lawyer I have been working with wanted me to give him a call if I found that my "other" programs (Medicare part A and B) were adversly affected. I thought I had found a program that would work and almost was ready to call him and tell him that all was proceeding OK. But not so...
I still need to get in touch with Aetna to make sure that I am not eligible for their advantage program for part A and B. While this might be only a county problem (I live in Stark County) they previously had told me that I couldn't get those coverages...and that was a story in itself...a real mess...
This is also a heads up for you younger retirees/buyout people that are heading for Medicare when you or a spouse hits the age of 65...you might find that you will have some real problems with your parts A and B.
I also need to get in touch with a couple people I know have reached this point and find out what they have done and if they have any problems...
Also, one of our group has had contact with another lawyer whom has a different focus on the whole situation...I don't have any details on this yet but this is why I strongly advise everybody to try this avenue to see if we can get other opinions on what can be done.
Overall...don't hold your breath or think we are finally on our way...it must be determined wether it will be financially viable to pursue this and if, indeed, we do have a strong case.
It ain't over until it's over...
bob abbott
Friday, May 09, 2008
Bob Abbott on Rx situation
Re exploring another lawyer's view of the situation:
As of yet I personally haven't searched to get another legal opinion of our situation with the BJ. And, at this point it will probably be a month or so before I get back into it. I feel I need to take a break from all this...it's been rather a chore...but I don't regret having explored our options (or lack of) to this point.
This message is to suggest that anybody that does make a contact with counsel to keep me up to speed, and I would even go so far as to suggest that I possibly could give you some ideas for your first initial contact in regard to this matter. I do have a pretty good idea of what they (counsel) might want to know at that first meeting...and if it's a free session you definitely would want to present everything that's possibly relevant.
And I can put you in contact with some individuals that have a different situation than I had...this could make all the difference in the world.
Feel free to pick my brain and get any information that could be of use.
Those that were part of our "slush" fund be aware that I finally have cleared all the paperwork, bills, etc. that were relevant to our probe of the Rx problem. The good news is that the lawyer didn't charge us for the latter phone calls and his counsel on different approaches that we might have been able to take. Doing most of the legwork myself and then bouncing ideas off him definitely worked out well...with no charge to our account. He was very sympathetic to our situation...and said it wasn't right (the way we were being treated) but the BJ was pushing all the loopholes as far as they could and they are keeping in mind how the courts have been handing down decisions. And it hasn't been to the advantage of the working man.
And of course when I was ready to make copies of all the paperwork you will be receiving my scanner/copier decided to quit talking to my computer (Murphy's law). But the problem was finally resolved and the checks (small though they be) will be in the mail early next week. Where have I heard that before?! And, as promised, you will have an accounting of every penny.
This effort wasn't in vain...we learned a lot and the BJ is aware that we aren't going to just roll over and let them get away with anything they desire to do. And I hope this might be just a start to maybe getting them to finally own up to their promises to their retirees and former employees.
As of yet I personally haven't searched to get another legal opinion of our situation with the BJ. And, at this point it will probably be a month or so before I get back into it. I feel I need to take a break from all this...it's been rather a chore...but I don't regret having explored our options (or lack of) to this point.
This message is to suggest that anybody that does make a contact with counsel to keep me up to speed, and I would even go so far as to suggest that I possibly could give you some ideas for your first initial contact in regard to this matter. I do have a pretty good idea of what they (counsel) might want to know at that first meeting...and if it's a free session you definitely would want to present everything that's possibly relevant.
And I can put you in contact with some individuals that have a different situation than I had...this could make all the difference in the world.
Feel free to pick my brain and get any information that could be of use.
Those that were part of our "slush" fund be aware that I finally have cleared all the paperwork, bills, etc. that were relevant to our probe of the Rx problem. The good news is that the lawyer didn't charge us for the latter phone calls and his counsel on different approaches that we might have been able to take. Doing most of the legwork myself and then bouncing ideas off him definitely worked out well...with no charge to our account. He was very sympathetic to our situation...and said it wasn't right (the way we were being treated) but the BJ was pushing all the loopholes as far as they could and they are keeping in mind how the courts have been handing down decisions. And it hasn't been to the advantage of the working man.
And of course when I was ready to make copies of all the paperwork you will be receiving my scanner/copier decided to quit talking to my computer (Murphy's law). But the problem was finally resolved and the checks (small though they be) will be in the mail early next week. Where have I heard that before?! And, as promised, you will have an accounting of every penny.
This effort wasn't in vain...we learned a lot and the BJ is aware that we aren't going to just roll over and let them get away with anything they desire to do. And I hope this might be just a start to maybe getting them to finally own up to their promises to their retirees and former employees.
Sunday, March 30, 2008
Bob Abbott on Rx problems
Here is where we stand...
My last contact (late last week) with counsel was just the confirmation that my (personal) latest problem with Medicare parts A & B could not be attributed to the BJ directly. If we could have involved them there was a chance that it would have given us a new foothold to perhaps
invoke some legal action against the BJ and their stance on "forcing" retirees over 65 to sign up for Medicare part D as administered by Aetna.
As it turns out the screw-up probably was with Aetna. This had a chain reaction in regards to my Medicare parts A & B. It is rather a moot point to try to assign blame if it wasn't the BJ's fault. Everything cleared with my new "Advantage" program with Humana. Good for me but not
so good for our cause. On advice from counsel...unless something new comes up (or the medicare
situation changes) we don't really have a strong case to challenge the BJ's stance. And, even if we did, he had the impression that the BJ was ready to fight it through as many appeals as would be necessary. This ultimately would involve a lot of expensive filing fees. Probably more than the monies we might stand to save. And it would take years. So, in this particular case (and it is only one situation) we are on hold.
Here's what we have accomplished.
We know exactly what the stance of the BJ is. They're going by the contract(s) in effect at the time of separation/retirement. This is the usual stance of companies involved with union separation/retirement negotiations. The mitigating circumstance that we all (most of us) had a
signed agreement stating something other than what the contract said seems to have no bearing. Which I still can't understand...but counsel seemed rather certain of that. But realize that conclusion is only from one attorney in regard to one situation.
The BJ was made aware that we aren't just giving up and accepting whatever they deem viable. That should at least make them be sure they have to be on relatively sound legal grounds before they totally violate our agreements.
I have amassed a lot of information in regard to the situation...which is available to anybody starting from any other angle to "fix" the situation. This could be valuable to future counsel to get a running start at them.
While we didn't actually start any legal action the BJ certainly knew (and they did respond) that counsel was looking at their stance in regard to the issue.
I am going to repeat what our stance was. This is important because it limited the information of what could or could not be used. This was NOT a class action. Counsel advised that Summit County judges are not favorable to class actions brought on by union groups. It was an
individual action (my name was on the dotted line) in regard to ONLY the fact that the BJ forced those of us (me) over 65 to sign up for Medicare part D. It had no bearing on anybody else and especially those under 65. This approach was taken because that appeared to be the best
approach and could involve some federal rules. Those under 65 definitely were still under the guidelines of union contracts. And since none of the different crafts union lawyers would touch it...it seemed pretty cut and dried that there wasn't much that could be done it that area.
And, until you are forced to sign up for the Medicare part D, the information I gathered was "merely" heresy and not usable in my case. Once you are affected, then you can start some actions. And some of the information I have heard, while being unusable for me, tweaked the
interest of the lawyer and he said there possibly could be some openings with that new information and with the parties involved. Some of that information could well be what is needed to get started. But it has to be from somebody that is directly involved AND affected by the BJ's
actions.
So here's what I suggest. Each and every one of you should contact a labor lawyer and try to set up a "free" initial consultation. Present your case and see what they say. It might take several tries but keep at it. I can't believe that somewhere down the line we can't come up with a viable case. We all know that what the BJ has done isn't what we signed up for and they're using loopholes and legal mumbo jumbo to fatten their coffers while costing us dearly.
Feel free to contact me for information/ammunition that might help you.
Those that contributed to the "slush fund." I'm waiting for a final statement from the bank to be sure I haven't been billed for my last few phone calls to counsel and I will get copies of the bills and bank
statements out to you. There is a little money (I hope) left in the account and I will get the checks to you as soon as I get the billing all cleared.
If anybody gets a positive reaction from any lawyer I also suggest perhaps we do this all over again...it didn't cost us that much and I think it was monies well spent. With new information and tactics we still could put some pressure on them.
If anybody getting this e-mail doesn't want me to pass on their e-mail address please inform me and I will, of course, honor your wishes. I think a special thanks should be given to Al Hunsicker...he ponied up some cash and he wasn't even affected!! Which is an interesting point in
itself!! Thanks Al!!
Hang tough...
bob abbott
My last contact (late last week) with counsel was just the confirmation that my (personal) latest problem with Medicare parts A & B could not be attributed to the BJ directly. If we could have involved them there was a chance that it would have given us a new foothold to perhaps
invoke some legal action against the BJ and their stance on "forcing" retirees over 65 to sign up for Medicare part D as administered by Aetna.
As it turns out the screw-up probably was with Aetna. This had a chain reaction in regards to my Medicare parts A & B. It is rather a moot point to try to assign blame if it wasn't the BJ's fault. Everything cleared with my new "Advantage" program with Humana. Good for me but not
so good for our cause. On advice from counsel...unless something new comes up (or the medicare
situation changes) we don't really have a strong case to challenge the BJ's stance. And, even if we did, he had the impression that the BJ was ready to fight it through as many appeals as would be necessary. This ultimately would involve a lot of expensive filing fees. Probably more than the monies we might stand to save. And it would take years. So, in this particular case (and it is only one situation) we are on hold.
Here's what we have accomplished.
We know exactly what the stance of the BJ is. They're going by the contract(s) in effect at the time of separation/retirement. This is the usual stance of companies involved with union separation/retirement negotiations. The mitigating circumstance that we all (most of us) had a
signed agreement stating something other than what the contract said seems to have no bearing. Which I still can't understand...but counsel seemed rather certain of that. But realize that conclusion is only from one attorney in regard to one situation.
The BJ was made aware that we aren't just giving up and accepting whatever they deem viable. That should at least make them be sure they have to be on relatively sound legal grounds before they totally violate our agreements.
I have amassed a lot of information in regard to the situation...which is available to anybody starting from any other angle to "fix" the situation. This could be valuable to future counsel to get a running start at them.
While we didn't actually start any legal action the BJ certainly knew (and they did respond) that counsel was looking at their stance in regard to the issue.
I am going to repeat what our stance was. This is important because it limited the information of what could or could not be used. This was NOT a class action. Counsel advised that Summit County judges are not favorable to class actions brought on by union groups. It was an
individual action (my name was on the dotted line) in regard to ONLY the fact that the BJ forced those of us (me) over 65 to sign up for Medicare part D. It had no bearing on anybody else and especially those under 65. This approach was taken because that appeared to be the best
approach and could involve some federal rules. Those under 65 definitely were still under the guidelines of union contracts. And since none of the different crafts union lawyers would touch it...it seemed pretty cut and dried that there wasn't much that could be done it that area.
And, until you are forced to sign up for the Medicare part D, the information I gathered was "merely" heresy and not usable in my case. Once you are affected, then you can start some actions. And some of the information I have heard, while being unusable for me, tweaked the
interest of the lawyer and he said there possibly could be some openings with that new information and with the parties involved. Some of that information could well be what is needed to get started. But it has to be from somebody that is directly involved AND affected by the BJ's
actions.
So here's what I suggest. Each and every one of you should contact a labor lawyer and try to set up a "free" initial consultation. Present your case and see what they say. It might take several tries but keep at it. I can't believe that somewhere down the line we can't come up with a viable case. We all know that what the BJ has done isn't what we signed up for and they're using loopholes and legal mumbo jumbo to fatten their coffers while costing us dearly.
Feel free to contact me for information/ammunition that might help you.
Those that contributed to the "slush fund." I'm waiting for a final statement from the bank to be sure I haven't been billed for my last few phone calls to counsel and I will get copies of the bills and bank
statements out to you. There is a little money (I hope) left in the account and I will get the checks to you as soon as I get the billing all cleared.
If anybody gets a positive reaction from any lawyer I also suggest perhaps we do this all over again...it didn't cost us that much and I think it was monies well spent. With new information and tactics we still could put some pressure on them.
If anybody getting this e-mail doesn't want me to pass on their e-mail address please inform me and I will, of course, honor your wishes. I think a special thanks should be given to Al Hunsicker...he ponied up some cash and he wasn't even affected!! Which is an interesting point in
itself!! Thanks Al!!
Hang tough...
bob abbott
Tuesday, March 04, 2008
Rx note from Bob Abbott
Just got final paperwork Saturday on a hopeful new angle in regard to our situation. The trial balloon went well for me personally (in other words the personal medical mess I was thrown into) in regard to Medicare parts A & B but it appears we can't blame the BJ for this snafu that developed ultimately as a result of our being "forced" to sign up for Aetna's/Medicare part D. Not sure but I think it was Aetna's screwup and partially Medicare.
Bottom line...we're in a holding pattern. I tried to talk to counsel yesterday but he wasn't in. He wanted me to contact him once the dust settled in regard to the above situation. I'm heading to Utah for a week of skiing later today so I'll have to get in touch with him after that.
Then I will be able to spell out where we're at and the direction I believe we should go. And then I'll also find out if counsel is charging us for the last few phone conferences (I think (hope) not). We still have a small amount of cash left and I'll be giving an accounting of that as I find out if we have further legal bills coming in.
We're not dead yet...there are still some options which I will describe and will give an explanation of exactly where we are at now.
thanks for your patience...
bob abbott
Bottom line...we're in a holding pattern. I tried to talk to counsel yesterday but he wasn't in. He wanted me to contact him once the dust settled in regard to the above situation. I'm heading to Utah for a week of skiing later today so I'll have to get in touch with him after that.
Then I will be able to spell out where we're at and the direction I believe we should go. And then I'll also find out if counsel is charging us for the last few phone conferences (I think (hope) not). We still have a small amount of cash left and I'll be giving an accounting of that as I find out if we have further legal bills coming in.
We're not dead yet...there are still some options which I will describe and will give an explanation of exactly where we are at now.
thanks for your patience...
bob abbott
Saturday, January 05, 2008
Rx note from Bob Abbott
I hope the holidays were good to everybody. I found them horribly busy but OK.
Here's the clarification I promised a couple weeks back.
On the advice of the counsel our slush fund hired we did not enter into any class action type of process. The reason being that, in his opinion, Summit County judges usually don't look favorably on class action suits. And, of course, that's the county we would have to work with. He also thought that the best area would be investigating the action the BJ initiated to those retirees over 65 and on Medicare. In short, we were literally "forced" to sign up for Medicare part D (prescription). This is in essence an "Advantage" program administered by Aetna. That means that Medicare pays Aetna to (in this case) take care of the BJ's obligation of our prescription card. Those monies come from our continuing payments to Medicare.
We did discuss those under 65 who were having problems with their prescription cards. He said that since that was entirely in the BJ's court that it should be up to the union lawyers to straighten it out and that probably would be difficult at best. As we know, there was no action from any of the different unions' lawyers. My understanding is that the company has a lot of latitude in administering that under the different union contracts.
So, what happened was an investigation and correspondence as to the BJ's stance on forcing those on Medicare into the Aetna Advantage prescription program. Their stance (and they did respond quickly) was that they were interpreting this in accordance to the contract in effect at the
time of each retirees separation/retirement from the BJ. This, as I understand, is pretty much the standard approach throughout the country. The part I didn't...and still don't...understand is that with our signed (by the company's representative in the human resources department) a separation or retirement agreement spelling out what we were to receive doesn't take precedence over the union contract. I even suggested that the company was misleading at best and fraudulent at worst but counsel said no.
It was evident that the company was going to be rather hard in their position and weren't likely to adjust or change their stance. So, at this point there still hasn't been any actual "legal" action but many areas were explored and a new situation arose that is still being investigated. This will probably take a few more weeks to find out if there is anything there.
We still have some monies left and I'm doing most of the legwork and contacts to save some on his fees. It's not as hard as you might be thinking as I would have had to do half of it anyway in my efforts to resolve the new "situation". I'll try to inform all of you as soon as the dust settles and we can determine where we're at.
It is a frustrating and very slow process as Medicare and medical providers are involved. And to get the same answer from two different parties even in the same department or company is almost impossible. But we have to try.
Those under 65 be aware of the train coming down the tracks. When you get "forced" to sign up for the part D Medicare program it can (and usually does) affect all your coverages even in the Medicare part A and B. It can get ugly.
Ultimately, it might require us to get another person's name on the dotted line once they are affected by the upcoming situation. Legal action can't be started until the person is directly affected. And from some of the stories I have heard...I think some of you have a strong
position to start from. I can't use it because I wasn't directly involved. Then it becomes heresy and doesn't stand up in court.
I want everybody to understand that the only angle we have investigated involves those who were forced to sign up with Aetna part D coverage. The idea there was that if we could breach the dam there...it would favorably affect all parties. But, even if that were to happen those under 65 probably wouldn't get any relief until they reached 65 and were then in the same boat. In other words, there is two different situations which would require two different solutions.
If there are any questions...contact me. I will try to explain further what we have and haven't accomplished and some alternatives that some of you might be able to take but I want everybody to know what our main focus has been to this point.
thanks for your patience
bob abbott
Here's the clarification I promised a couple weeks back.
On the advice of the counsel our slush fund hired we did not enter into any class action type of process. The reason being that, in his opinion, Summit County judges usually don't look favorably on class action suits. And, of course, that's the county we would have to work with. He also thought that the best area would be investigating the action the BJ initiated to those retirees over 65 and on Medicare. In short, we were literally "forced" to sign up for Medicare part D (prescription). This is in essence an "Advantage" program administered by Aetna. That means that Medicare pays Aetna to (in this case) take care of the BJ's obligation of our prescription card. Those monies come from our continuing payments to Medicare.
We did discuss those under 65 who were having problems with their prescription cards. He said that since that was entirely in the BJ's court that it should be up to the union lawyers to straighten it out and that probably would be difficult at best. As we know, there was no action from any of the different unions' lawyers. My understanding is that the company has a lot of latitude in administering that under the different union contracts.
So, what happened was an investigation and correspondence as to the BJ's stance on forcing those on Medicare into the Aetna Advantage prescription program. Their stance (and they did respond quickly) was that they were interpreting this in accordance to the contract in effect at the
time of each retirees separation/retirement from the BJ. This, as I understand, is pretty much the standard approach throughout the country. The part I didn't...and still don't...understand is that with our signed (by the company's representative in the human resources department) a separation or retirement agreement spelling out what we were to receive doesn't take precedence over the union contract. I even suggested that the company was misleading at best and fraudulent at worst but counsel said no.
It was evident that the company was going to be rather hard in their position and weren't likely to adjust or change their stance. So, at this point there still hasn't been any actual "legal" action but many areas were explored and a new situation arose that is still being investigated. This will probably take a few more weeks to find out if there is anything there.
We still have some monies left and I'm doing most of the legwork and contacts to save some on his fees. It's not as hard as you might be thinking as I would have had to do half of it anyway in my efforts to resolve the new "situation". I'll try to inform all of you as soon as the dust settles and we can determine where we're at.
It is a frustrating and very slow process as Medicare and medical providers are involved. And to get the same answer from two different parties even in the same department or company is almost impossible. But we have to try.
Those under 65 be aware of the train coming down the tracks. When you get "forced" to sign up for the part D Medicare program it can (and usually does) affect all your coverages even in the Medicare part A and B. It can get ugly.
Ultimately, it might require us to get another person's name on the dotted line once they are affected by the upcoming situation. Legal action can't be started until the person is directly affected. And from some of the stories I have heard...I think some of you have a strong
position to start from. I can't use it because I wasn't directly involved. Then it becomes heresy and doesn't stand up in court.
I want everybody to understand that the only angle we have investigated involves those who were forced to sign up with Aetna part D coverage. The idea there was that if we could breach the dam there...it would favorably affect all parties. But, even if that were to happen those under 65 probably wouldn't get any relief until they reached 65 and were then in the same boat. In other words, there is two different situations which would require two different solutions.
If there are any questions...contact me. I will try to explain further what we have and haven't accomplished and some alternatives that some of you might be able to take but I want everybody to know what our main focus has been to this point.
thanks for your patience
bob abbott
Thursday, December 06, 2007
Medicare note from Bob Abbott
OK Gang:
Here we go again...
This is ONLY for those that were "forced" to sign up with Medicare part D by the BJ. That means you must be old enough for Medicare. What I
need to know if that affected your part A and B of Medicare and if so...was it resolved and if so, how? This would be probably in conjunction
with an "Advantage" program. What did Medicare say about it? What did the BJ benefits department say or do about it?
I know there are/were some people being hit by this. Usually in the form of being informed that they no longer could be carried in any
"Advantage" program since we had to sign up for the BJ group plan of Medicare part D. Apparently Medicare will not split the Medicare checks to sub
contractors in two different program providers.
It's a real mess...I know because I have been affected and have been fighting this (along with our original problems) since April...when I was
informed by Aetna Advantage program that I was being dropped retroactively (back to Jan. 31 if you can believe that!) from part A & B
coverages. And any medical bills in that period of time would not be paid by them. Despite the fact that I had a valid medical card from Aetna that
said I was covered during that time!!
I have been in contact with numerous providers and nobody can seem to give me a straight answer as I twist in the wind. So it's back to
square one with more info this time to see if I can get some answers. Counsel wants to see exactly what the parties are saying (both Medicare and
the BJ) about the situation. There's a chance some leverage could be gained by us in regard to the situation.
So, I'll be calling Karen to see if she has any answers. Last Spring she didn't have any in regard to this situation. And have you tried to
talk to somebody in Medicare lately? Last time was a 65 minute hold. And this is now the open enrollment period for providers so it'll
probably be even worse. And then to get somebody that actually knows anything! My patience is getting pretty worn...
Anyway...I'm bringing this up because those of you that aren't at the Medicare age yet...take note...the train is coming down the tracks.
Things are in flux as far as Medicare and "Advantage" and even "Supplement" programs are concerned. And they're throwing in the part D in the
mix just to keep us totally confused. But I see some alternatives...none of them being what I signed up for at the time of my separation
from the BJ...but maybe things I might have to do in my personal situation. And hopefully some alternatives I can live with. I will of course
keep you informed...
I also will be filling you in on exactly the approach counsel has used and any new directions from the latest information I have given him.
He showed interest in many of the latest items but some of the best Couldn't be used because the people concerned haven't been directly
affected yet. I hope to get some of these clarifying e-mails out in the next week or two.
As far as what is immediately happening...if you (or anyone you know) has had some insurance problems (being cancelled by carriers) as a
result of the BJ's actions please let me know as soon as possible.
It will be undoubtedly into Jan. before any of this is sorted out. At this point we have a little money left. Probably enough to get him to
sort through this latest development. But that means I probably won't get the accounting from our slush fund to you until Feb. If we're
lucky we might have to make a choice at that time of either adding to the fund for some further action or let it go and split up any monies left.
thanks for your patience
bob abbott
Here we go again...
This is ONLY for those that were "forced" to sign up with Medicare part D by the BJ. That means you must be old enough for Medicare. What I
need to know if that affected your part A and B of Medicare and if so...was it resolved and if so, how? This would be probably in conjunction
with an "Advantage" program. What did Medicare say about it? What did the BJ benefits department say or do about it?
I know there are/were some people being hit by this. Usually in the form of being informed that they no longer could be carried in any
"Advantage" program since we had to sign up for the BJ group plan of Medicare part D. Apparently Medicare will not split the Medicare checks to sub
contractors in two different program providers.
It's a real mess...I know because I have been affected and have been fighting this (along with our original problems) since April...when I was
informed by Aetna Advantage program that I was being dropped retroactively (back to Jan. 31 if you can believe that!) from part A & B
coverages. And any medical bills in that period of time would not be paid by them. Despite the fact that I had a valid medical card from Aetna that
said I was covered during that time!!
I have been in contact with numerous providers and nobody can seem to give me a straight answer as I twist in the wind. So it's back to
square one with more info this time to see if I can get some answers. Counsel wants to see exactly what the parties are saying (both Medicare and
the BJ) about the situation. There's a chance some leverage could be gained by us in regard to the situation.
So, I'll be calling Karen to see if she has any answers. Last Spring she didn't have any in regard to this situation. And have you tried to
talk to somebody in Medicare lately? Last time was a 65 minute hold. And this is now the open enrollment period for providers so it'll
probably be even worse. And then to get somebody that actually knows anything! My patience is getting pretty worn...
Anyway...I'm bringing this up because those of you that aren't at the Medicare age yet...take note...the train is coming down the tracks.
Things are in flux as far as Medicare and "Advantage" and even "Supplement" programs are concerned. And they're throwing in the part D in the
mix just to keep us totally confused. But I see some alternatives...none of them being what I signed up for at the time of my separation
from the BJ...but maybe things I might have to do in my personal situation. And hopefully some alternatives I can live with. I will of course
keep you informed...
I also will be filling you in on exactly the approach counsel has used and any new directions from the latest information I have given him.
He showed interest in many of the latest items but some of the best Couldn't be used because the people concerned haven't been directly
affected yet. I hope to get some of these clarifying e-mails out in the next week or two.
As far as what is immediately happening...if you (or anyone you know) has had some insurance problems (being cancelled by carriers) as a
result of the BJ's actions please let me know as soon as possible.
It will be undoubtedly into Jan. before any of this is sorted out. At this point we have a little money left. Probably enough to get him to
sort through this latest development. But that means I probably won't get the accounting from our slush fund to you until Feb. If we're
lucky we might have to make a choice at that time of either adding to the fund for some further action or let it go and split up any monies left.
thanks for your patience
bob abbott
Wednesday, October 24, 2007
Rx Note from Bob Abbott
Need an answer to this question if you would be so kind. And while it probably won't have a direct bearing on what we are doing at this
moment it might be of great importance in the future!!
Would you be willing to say in a deposition (or other legal document)that the RX card was a VERY important part in your decision to retire or
take the retirement incentive buyout? Please be honest about this! Reply if you would...even if it wasn't of that much importance to you!
Realize that this is not an anticipated action at this point but counsel seems to be interested in the big picture for all of us and not just
in a singular case.
Thanks!
Bob Abbott
rabbott@mindspring.com
Saturday, September 15, 2007
Rx note from Bob Abbott
I'm still receiving info and expect a couple more additions in the next week or so. As a result, it will take more time to go through all this and try to get in a presentable format for counsel to check out. Also, I plan to talk to Tom Cowman at the union meeting later this month. While it's possible that he might not have anything useful to add I believe it is worth the effort just to make sure. And I need to contact some people by phone for clarification of some info.
Over the months...the information I have gone through...and the stories (some of them pretty horrific) about the fallout from the BJ's approach to weaseling out of their obligations to their retirees...would lead a reasonable person to believe this should be a slam-dunk. But obviously interpretations of laws and reality are not necessarily in step.
So it looks like it will yet be another month before we complete this next step. I apologize for all the time this is taking. I had no idea things would move so slow...but I feel we need to cover any possibility that might help us out. So, once again, if any of you have any more information...get it to me...another bit of time won't make much difference at this point.
thanks
bob abbott
Thursday, August 23, 2007
Rx note from Bob Abbott
Still waiting for respomse from Cowman.
I haven't heard from many non-typographical people about the importance
of the prescription card in regard to their separation/retirement.
This could be important!
If any of the Guild people or other sectors of the CWA have
anything...let me know. Do you know of anybody else and their thoughts in regard
to the prescription card? Again, might be of help...
bob abbott
rabbott@mindspring.com
Monday, August 20, 2007
Rx note from Bob Abbott
Group:
I'm still waiting to hear from one individual and I need to personally contact at least one other person by phone. At that time I can compile the info I've received and present it to counsel.
Sorry it's moving so slow but that's the way of the world I guess. I would expect it'll be a week or two before I can get to the point of presenting the information to counsel. While it's not looking terribly good at this point I feel that we're laying a good foundation (or at least a solid starting point) should the BJ continue their immoral interpretations of our retirement/separation agreements.
Thanks for all your help...
It's not over until the fat lady sings...we'll hang tough...
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'll keep you updated as to the situation as it unfolds.
bob abbott
rabbott@mindspring.com
I'm still waiting to hear from one individual and I need to personally contact at least one other person by phone. At that time I can compile the info I've received and present it to counsel.
Sorry it's moving so slow but that's the way of the world I guess. I would expect it'll be a week or two before I can get to the point of presenting the information to counsel. While it's not looking terribly good at this point I feel that we're laying a good foundation (or at least a solid starting point) should the BJ continue their immoral interpretations of our retirement/separation agreements.
Thanks for all your help...
It's not over until the fat lady sings...we'll hang tough...
Feel free to contact me if you have any questions. I'll keep you updated as to the situation as it unfolds.
bob abbott
rabbott@mindspring.com
Wednesday, August 01, 2007
Rx note from Bob Abbott
OK gang...here's where we're at...
I'm still waiting for some responses to my previous inquiry...I assumed some of you were probably on vacation and/or trying to round up some hard facts (paperwork) that we can presentto the lawyer. Or...perhaps you have already found as much info as is available in your personalsituation.
Thanks to those that have responded and to those couple of people that promised me some paperwork but still haven't sent it...please send itas soon as possible.
I'm holding off on contacting the lawyer again until I have the wholepackage (or as much as we can come up with). That way I'm thinking wecan save some money as opposed to me bugging him with every littledetail as it comes up. If he charges us for (and he probably should) hissorting through the info it probably will be more economical in onepackage.
At this stage he is on hold and not costing us any monies. Nor have Iinstructed him to move forward and turn this into a real lawsuit. Hisadvice is that we need more ammo to realistically have much of a chanceto move the BJ from their stance. And, according to his feeling ofthe situation, they (the BJ) are digging in their heels and probably notgoing to cave in unless we can find a weak spot in their position. More scary is the prospect that, even if we had a super strong legal case,the BJ could keep appealing decisions against them. And, as thishappens, the filing fees for each new level of court and legal fees wouldskyrocket. In other words, they could drag this out until we either gobroke or die from old age. Not very encouraging!! And that's even ifwe would keep winning decisions in court. But they also might just saythe hassle isn't worth the effort... but I'm sure they're looking downthe road and as more retirees reach 65 they (the BJ) would be affectedand the BJ's cost would increase.
Some of the idea of where we're at and where we might go in the futuremight be more of setting up a group or individual that is in a betterposition to carry on in the future. Some of you that are under 65really haven't been affected by the BJ's Medicare part D that we arefighting at the moment. The shabby way the BJ is treating their presentemployees' prescription cards and those that are under 65 is pretty much aseparate issue. And if the union lawyers won't touch it while it isstill a contract issue you can probably bet the BJ is doing it legally ifnot morally. If you haven't been affected you can't bring legalaction. But we all know it will happen and as the people reach that "magic"age of 65 you will be forced into the Medicare mess.
My info into the contracts from the other trade unions at the time ofretirement/separation is still woefully limited. If some of you couldfill me in on any bit of info as to the contracts in effect at the timeof your retirement it would really help fill in the information weneed. Obviously, and unfortunately legally, the BJ's stance is they aregoing by the contracts in effect at the time of retirement/separation. We need to know this information if possible.
If you have anything...please send it if you haven't already and we'll present what we have to the lawyer and see if we can come up with something that can move us forward and get off this holding pattern.
thanks
bob abbott
I'm still waiting for some responses to my previous inquiry...I assumed some of you were probably on vacation and/or trying to round up some hard facts (paperwork) that we can presentto the lawyer. Or...perhaps you have already found as much info as is available in your personalsituation.
Thanks to those that have responded and to those couple of people that promised me some paperwork but still haven't sent it...please send itas soon as possible.
I'm holding off on contacting the lawyer again until I have the wholepackage (or as much as we can come up with). That way I'm thinking wecan save some money as opposed to me bugging him with every littledetail as it comes up. If he charges us for (and he probably should) hissorting through the info it probably will be more economical in onepackage.
At this stage he is on hold and not costing us any monies. Nor have Iinstructed him to move forward and turn this into a real lawsuit. Hisadvice is that we need more ammo to realistically have much of a chanceto move the BJ from their stance. And, according to his feeling ofthe situation, they (the BJ) are digging in their heels and probably notgoing to cave in unless we can find a weak spot in their position. More scary is the prospect that, even if we had a super strong legal case,the BJ could keep appealing decisions against them. And, as thishappens, the filing fees for each new level of court and legal fees wouldskyrocket. In other words, they could drag this out until we either gobroke or die from old age. Not very encouraging!! And that's even ifwe would keep winning decisions in court. But they also might just saythe hassle isn't worth the effort... but I'm sure they're looking downthe road and as more retirees reach 65 they (the BJ) would be affectedand the BJ's cost would increase.
Some of the idea of where we're at and where we might go in the futuremight be more of setting up a group or individual that is in a betterposition to carry on in the future. Some of you that are under 65really haven't been affected by the BJ's Medicare part D that we arefighting at the moment. The shabby way the BJ is treating their presentemployees' prescription cards and those that are under 65 is pretty much aseparate issue. And if the union lawyers won't touch it while it isstill a contract issue you can probably bet the BJ is doing it legally ifnot morally. If you haven't been affected you can't bring legalaction. But we all know it will happen and as the people reach that "magic"age of 65 you will be forced into the Medicare mess.
My info into the contracts from the other trade unions at the time ofretirement/separation is still woefully limited. If some of you couldfill me in on any bit of info as to the contracts in effect at the timeof your retirement it would really help fill in the information weneed. Obviously, and unfortunately legally, the BJ's stance is they aregoing by the contracts in effect at the time of retirement/separation. We need to know this information if possible.
If you have anything...please send it if you haven't already and we'll present what we have to the lawyer and see if we can come up with something that can move us forward and get off this holding pattern.
thanks
bob abbott
Friday, June 29, 2007
Rx questions from Bob Abbott
OK Group:
Need some more info if possible...
I'm reasonably familiar with the 10-year ITU/CWA contract that I left under...Even happen to have a copy of it. But I'm at a loss with the other union contracts and they might give us some leverage.
So...here's what I need (even from those of you that were under that ITU/CWA contract...)
Did your contract have any mention of a Rx card or Rx coverage at the time of your separation/retirement? (Probably not)
Did you have a form of Rx coverage or card at the time of your separation/retirement? (Probably)
(Sidebar...if you were getting that coverage during the effective dates of the contract it is almost the same as being in the contract) (At least that what the lawyer says.)
Did you have a separation/retirement letter stating the benefits that you would have after your separation/retirement? (Probably)
Now...here's a biggie...please be honest... (even though the company isn't being honest)...
Did the fact that if it was stated in your letter of separation/retirement that you had Rx coverage how much of a factor did that Rx coverage play into your decision to retire or take an early retirement incentive?
Let's do it like the professional poll takers do it...
The Rx coverage was...
+A major factor in retiring/separating...
+An important factor in retiring/separating...
+Just part of the package of retiring/separating...
+Not of any real significance in your decision...
+No significance whatsoever...
One last question...
Was it inferred or said that the Rx coverage would not be or might not be available in the future if you didn't take the program as it was and at that time.
As always...if you are talking to some others or are aware of their position on any of these questions...throw them in. Numbers are important and our small group of activists could certainly use some support in numbers...if not with cash.
This is important...if you can get back to me in a week or two we'll see what that might do to try to put some pressure on the BJ. They are digging their heels in and it's going to be tough.
We need to find a weak spot and some of this might be it...we can't afford to leave any stone unturned...
thanks
bob abbott
Need some more info if possible...
I'm reasonably familiar with the 10-year ITU/CWA contract that I left under...Even happen to have a copy of it. But I'm at a loss with the other union contracts and they might give us some leverage.
So...here's what I need (even from those of you that were under that ITU/CWA contract...)
Did your contract have any mention of a Rx card or Rx coverage at the time of your separation/retirement? (Probably not)
Did you have a form of Rx coverage or card at the time of your separation/retirement? (Probably)
(Sidebar...if you were getting that coverage during the effective dates of the contract it is almost the same as being in the contract) (At least that what the lawyer says.)
Did you have a separation/retirement letter stating the benefits that you would have after your separation/retirement? (Probably)
Now...here's a biggie...please be honest... (even though the company isn't being honest)...
Did the fact that if it was stated in your letter of separation/retirement that you had Rx coverage how much of a factor did that Rx coverage play into your decision to retire or take an early retirement incentive?
Let's do it like the professional poll takers do it...
The Rx coverage was...
+A major factor in retiring/separating...
+An important factor in retiring/separating...
+Just part of the package of retiring/separating...
+Not of any real significance in your decision...
+No significance whatsoever...
One last question...
Was it inferred or said that the Rx coverage would not be or might not be available in the future if you didn't take the program as it was and at that time.
As always...if you are talking to some others or are aware of their position on any of these questions...throw them in. Numbers are important and our small group of activists could certainly use some support in numbers...if not with cash.
This is important...if you can get back to me in a week or two we'll see what that might do to try to put some pressure on the BJ. They are digging their heels in and it's going to be tough.
We need to find a weak spot and some of this might be it...we can't afford to leave any stone unturned...
thanks
bob abbott
Saturday, May 26, 2007
Rx card information sought
Query from Bob Abbott:
We need some info if possible...
We need some info if possible...
Do any of you remember when you signed up for your
retirement/separation if the prescription card was mentioned (hopefully in writing) at that
point. And if so, do you have printed proof of that?
I personally recall that I had to sign up for separation agreement
ahead of time (only three priority situation holders would be accepted) but
I don't recall anything in writing referring to the prescription card.
But I certainly knew about it or I wouldn't have even contemplated
leaving. It would be helpful if we could prove that those (prescription)
benefits were a main driving force for our retiring/separating from the
company.
So...dig into your memories and papers and see if we can come up with
something along that line.
thanks
bob abbott
Monday, May 07, 2007
Bob Abbott Rx update
OK group...sorry for the delay but my computer barfed and I think it died. I'm at the library to do this.
The account has been opened and we're ready for business. A few of the people I thought would
join didn't...but we'll have to make do with what we have. Should be enough for our initial probes
as to our possibilities of action. If not, I guess I will have to pick up the slack.
The lawyer sent a letter to the BJ last week requesting an explanation of their position. He said it
might be a couple of weeks to get a reply. Actually that's faster than I expected. (if it happens...
I will, of course, keep you posted.)
The letter (I was sent a copy) also stated that possible legal action could/would be taken if they
didn't respond. The next step is to see what their official position is. He has a couple of possible
explanations they might come up with. But he seems confident that (if they indeed do throw the
expected answers at him) we have viable answers to these scenarios.
When I get in direct contact with him again I plan to bring up the fact that a lot of us were knocked
out of our "advantage" Medicare plans. Or even "supplement" plans in one case. Don't know
whether that legally can be tied into this or not.
Sidebar: My wife (who is insured through the BJ yet even got knocked out of her BJ group policy.
The BJ's human resources department said it was a mistake and would be straightened out.
In the meantime it appears she wasn't covered for her cancer treatments. How is that for a
messup!!?? I think (hope) that it will be straightened out or I will have another legal case to take
to them. Will it never end?
Let's hope we get some satisfaction from this. If not...at least we took a couple swings at them on
the way down...
later...and thanks for your support...
bob abbott
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